My V1000 has a Yuasa 53030 battery fitted... It's NOT a sealed for life and I've had to top it up a few times since I got the bike...
I firmly believe that keeping the battery and leads in the best possible condition helps keep the starter mechanism on any bike in good nick... Poor battery condition and dodgy leads leads to the starter struggling with low applied voltage and insufficient current... Precisely the conditions that will lead to slow cranking and mechanism failure...
I've already replaced the battery leads with car spec ones, having a MUCH bigger cross-sectional area (if V =I2/R, then more copper=less resistance and so more volts) and I've reterminated the battery earth lead. It was originally secured underneath the aluminium rear mudguard mount (the one with the two o-rings). This meant that the 8mm dia ring terminal was mounted onto a 5mm bolt and hard up against the lovely enamelled frame... So totally crap as a frame earth... >:(
I reterminated it by replacing one of the bolts securing the rear brakelight switch to the frame with a longer, stainless steel, item. The frame thread and surrounding area was thoughroughly cleaned of enamel, prior to securing the bolt, and the longer thread then used to secure the earth lead... There was a noticeable difference in engine cranking speed (faster) when I'd completed the lead replacements...
The next thing will be to source/fit an Adsorbed Glass Mat (AGM) maintenance free battery... One with the highest cold-cranking amperage (CCA) that I can find...
The original Yuasa battery is 186mm long, 130mm wide and 171mm high. It delivers a CCA of 300A. I've found an AGM upgrade: YIX30L, which is 166mm long, 125mm wide and 175mm high. This one delivers a CCA of 385A, so not only is it maintenance free, it'll deliver almost 30% more cranking power...
This battery has the following equivalents:
Dynavolt - MG30LBS
Westco - 12VX30LB
Motobatt - MBTX30U
So, has anyone tried any of these batteries..? I'd be very interested to hear anyone's experiences on this.
Miti
Hi Jeff,
The Yuasa 53030 is a good battery which should last 5+ years on the Hesketh.
You do need to top it up occasionally because the Sparkrite voltage regulator fitted to the Hesketh is 80's technology and doesn't have good voltage control, so gives your battery a hard time.
As mentioned by Rob B in another post - change to a Boyer Bransden power box (PB106) and you'll have more power available for your electrical extras and it gives your battery an easier time and it's fully encapsulated, unlike the Sparkrite which will eventually let in water and fail.
Reason I mention the voltage regulator in answer to a battery problem is that modern AGM batteries are very good at giving higher CCA and holding charge, but they are designed for use with modern electrical charging systems.
If you buy AGM, make sure the supplier says it's OK for a 1980's charging system, which will probably mean it will have lower CCA but will be more robust.
I've heard from friends with other 1980's bikes like Guzzi & BMW that Odyssey AGM work well, but I've no personal experience with them on a Hesketh.
Dave H
Hi Dave;
You'll (and others too, maybe) probably hate this, but my plan is to fit a Shindengen MOSFET regulator/rectifier (FH012AA, or similar). It's the "state of the art" with regard to motorcycle charging systems and should complement an AGM battery very well. There are kits (like this one) widely available now...
(http://roadstercycle.com/images/New_Kit_CB_irf.jpg)
It's my plan to revise the Coil/Ignition Amp/Regulator bracket so that It accepts Gill coils, the Shindengen R/R and a new, programmable, ignition unit, but the R/R will easily fit where the Sparkrite jobbie is mounted, so that'll be the first one to be replaced...
The reason I'm going with the Shindengen unit is that the MOSFET circuitry not only maximises the available output voltage (which could be achieved by switching from Sparkrite to Boyer-Bransden Power Box) but it also ensures maximum available current from the charging system, something I'm unconvinced that the BBPB can guarantee...
I'm also toying with upgrading the lucas alternator for a Hi-Output one... The couple of times I've ridden the V1000 after dark have shown that the headlamp isn't getting the supply it needs to shoot that beam ahead of the bike (yes, it's adjusted correctly). I tried changing the bulb, but same result with a brand new one...
So... Should be busy during the winter...
Miti
Hi Jeff,
Sounds good to me.
Any parts that help keep Heskeths on the road and improved are of interest to us all.
Keep up the good work.
Dave H
One thing that has been mentioned in the past and should be quite easy to achieve is to fit a relay to automaticaly flip the coils over from series to parallel just while the starter motor is cranking to get over the temporary volt drop on the coils. typically this drops down from 6v to 4v while the starter is engaged which is precisely when you want a big fat spark.
Theoretically whilst cranking, and with the coils in parallel, this will double to 8 volts then drop back to 6 volts once the beast has awoken and the relay flips the coils back to series.
I think this is a job for tomorrow night whilst "Strictly" is on and now that the powerbox is fitted on the V1000....
Rob'
Since I sorted the battery leads and frame earth connection, my V1000 starts incredibly easily... It's almost always "on the button" and only cranks when I've forgotten to give the throttle a couple of good twists first, or when I should be using the choke. I think I'd regard this piece of work as preferable over the series/parallel switching of the coils... I'll sort a couple of photos of my handiwork...
Miti
Many thanks. I have switched a better negative cable with a lot more copper but still using the original frame earthing point which is not ideal.
I finally got around to posting up some info/pics regarding the battery leads and other electrical houskeeping. It's in a separate topic, posted here: (http://www.heskethownersclub.org.uk/HOCSMF/index.php?topic=69.msg211#msg211)
Miti
Geoff
Have you bought and fitted the new rec/reg yet and if so what are your thoughts and who did you get it from.
I run an extra earth drilled and tapped to the crank cases at the starter motor, this helps no end.
Andy
Hi Andy;
Still in my box of Gucci parts to fit "when time permits" I'm afraid...
I bought the rec/reg unit 2nd hand from and Ebay supplier, but they can be found online as part of a "kit" including the necessary connectors... As the V1000 generator only has a 15 Amp output, I'll just replace both halves of the connector with a suitable waterproof unit...
You'll find that the Shindengen FH012AA Rec/Reg has been superceded by the FH020AA model nowadays... The new model appears on Ebay for much better prices than the old and is probably worth forking out for as new kit item...
I have fitted extra earths to a number of bikes... My XS1100 benefits greatly from one added to the starter casing and another tying the rec/reg unit case to the battery earth... Improves starting and power regulation a treat!
It's my plan to fit the Shindengen unit over winter as part of a number of upgrade/maintenance tasks... I'll add more as/when the tasks are complete...
Jeff
I'm Resurrecting this topic as I've done some more research...
I've been digging around on various online Forums and websites and have discovered that the Shindengen FH012AA and FH020AA Rec/Reg units are constructed with integral connectors...
Fitting either of these units with the heatsink fins running along the longitudinal axis of the bike will point these connectors sideways and away from the Hesketh harness connectors...
But... These Rec/Reg units also come with flying leads/connectors... So I've elected to go with a FH008EE unit (commonly fitted to Honda CBR600RR models). Looks like this:
(http://i54.tinypic.com/sgtv9d.jpg)
This is a 30 Amp, 3 phase Rec/Reg using the "shunt" principle, so ideal to match with the Lucas alternator on the V1000... BUT... It doesn't have the facility to connect a charge light...
This is not a unique problem though... Many old British bikes have a charge light fitted, as do most Laverdas and Moto-Guzzis... When these bikes are fitted with state of the art rec/reg units, the same problem rears it's ugly head... But I've found that the problem has already been solved (I hope).
Many British bikes (and cars) were fitted with a "Charge Light Relay" (or 'assimilator') described as a "3AW". This appears to have been a somewhat problematic device (unsurprisingly if it's construction is anything to go by) so a solid state version - "SS3AW" has been developed by an aftermarket supplier...
(http://www.coolcatcorp.com/Merchant5/graphics/00000001/ss3aw.jpg) (http://www.coolcatcorp.com/Merchant5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=SS3AW&Category_Code=OBM)
The unit connects between the charge light wiring, the frame earth and an alternator phase O/P. It provides an earth to the charge light until the alternator starts to produce an output, when the earth is removed and the lamp extinguishes...
I suspect it has a small relay inside. The charge circuit will be connected to earth via a pair of NC contacts... The relay coil probably has a 1/2 wave rectifier (single diode) connected between its coil and the alternator output, the other side of the coil going to earth... When the alternator produces an output, the relay will switch on and disconnect the lamp...
I've e-mailed the supplier and will carry on with this when they reply...
Jeff
Well... The guys at Cool Cat Express Corp have come up with the goods... The SS3AW arrived very well packed and came complete with printed instructions. As I'm using this component on a bike it wasn't actually designed for, but a similar electrical system, I've had an e-mail conversation with Mike @ Cool Cat and he's agreed that it should work as required.
The SS3AW comes complete with flying leads fitted with 6.3mm female spade connectors.
PIC: SS3AW as supplied (http://iloapp.empressmcc.org.uk/data/_gallery/public/11/139482704237906700_resized.jpg)
Whilst I do want my V1000 to perform well, I'm not 100% comfy with simply tearing into the bike and affecting changes to the fabric of the machine that can't be undone... So, I've decided to splice the SS3AW into the Shindengen Rec/Reg sub-harness, rather than into the Hesketh main harness:
PIC: Sleeving on -ve output wire and one of 3=Phase input wires removed. Conductor solder tinned. (http://iloapp.empressmcc.org.uk/data/_gallery/public/11/139482706532536500_resized.jpg)
PIC: Wires colour matched to SS3AW wiring wrapped and soldered to Shindengen wiring. (http://iloapp.empressmcc.org.uk/data/_gallery/public/11/139482708845868600_resized.jpg)
PIC: Spliced joint heat-shrink wrapped (both wires were done) (http://iloapp.empressmcc.org.uk/data/_gallery/public/11/139482711450984600_resized.jpg)
PIC: 3rd (orange) wire added, wires sleeved and pins suitable for Hesketh connectors crimped on. (http://iloapp.empressmcc.org.uk/data/_gallery/public/11/139482713941889000_resized.jpg)
PIC: Additional 3-pin connector added to connect/disconnect SS3AW for assembly/maintenance convenience, (http://iloapp.empressmcc.org.uk/data/_gallery/public/11/139482716714048500_resized.jpg)
PIC: This is a bit of a cause for concern... The original Hesketh connectors... The +ve & -ve pins aren't so bad and I managed to fit 6.3mm spades suitable for the heavy wires on the Shindengen unit... But the pins for the alternator phase outputs are TINY... (http://iloapp.empressmcc.org.uk/data/_gallery/public/11/139482701749829400_resized.jpg)
I'll be checking these connectors frequently... I am NOT confident that the small pins will carry the current and they'll be in the bin and substituted for 6.3mm spades at the very first sign of any trouble...
With the electrical connections sorted, time to get the physical swap organised:
PIC: Here's the original Rec/Reg in-situ (http://iloapp.empressmcc.org.uk/data/_gallery/public/11/139482687836587300_resized.jpg)
It's held onto the V1000 electrics bracket by three M5 screws /nuts....
PIC: When the screws are removed, the rec/reg drops down into the V of the engine... With all the carbs and oil lines in place, it's a bloomin' tight fit to get out... (http://iloapp.empressmcc.org.uk/data/_gallery/public/11/139482690296208600_resized.jpg)
PIC: But in my case, the front airbox is already out, so... (http://iloapp.empressmcc.org.uk/data/_gallery/public/11/139482692706987700_resized.jpg)
PIC: I remember seeing these cases lurking under the bonnets of all sorts of cars in the '70s and '80s... Sparkrite made transistor ignition systems and alarms in these case too... This is the first rec/reg I've seen though... (http://iloapp.empressmcc.org.uk/data/_gallery/public/11/139482695451718800_resized.jpg)
PIC: So, now I need to replicate this mounting arrangement to fit the electrical bracket and add additional mountings to suit the Shindengen unit... (http://iloapp.empressmcc.org.uk/data/_gallery/public/11/139482721945173800_resized.jpg)
PIC: After a bit of thought, I bought these at the recent Scottish M/C Show... (http://iloapp.empressmcc.org.uk/data/_gallery/public/11/139482719346003200_resized.jpg)
PIC: And lashed this up... (http://iloapp.empressmcc.org.uk/data/_gallery/public/11/139482724263702600_resized.jpg)
You'll have noticed that I've fitted the Shindengen unit with the wiring facing forward and the fins across the frame, rather than along it... This was because the new rec/reg, whilst being shorter and shallower than the Sparkrite unit, it's actually wider... The end opposite the wiring is formed into a kind of rounded taper and this end clears the carb cables and wiring harness MUCH better than the other end does...
PIC: Test fit seems to go OK for rec/reg... (http://iloapp.empressmcc.org.uk/data/_gallery/public/11/139482726739242000_resized.jpg)
...PIC: and the SS3AW too... (http://iloapp.empressmcc.org.uk/data/_gallery/public/11/139482729978176100_resized.jpg)
BTW: At this point I've already completed a static test of the electrics... I have a charge warning light..!! (whoopee!!)
PIC: The prototype bracket had square ends that interfered with the carb cable runs and were too close to the V1000 for comfort, so I spent a little time finishing it off... (http://iloapp.empressmcc.org.uk/data/_gallery/public/11/139482735134813600_resized.jpg)
PIC: I'm NOT a patient man when it comes to metalworking... This took me more time than I'm prepare to divulge, so you're treated to another photo... (http://iloapp.empressmcc.org.uk/data/_gallery/public/11/139482737436555300_resized.jpg)
PIC: Fits onto the new rec/reg quite nicely... (http://iloapp.empressmcc.org.uk/data/_gallery/public/11/139482739758144300_resized.jpg)
PIC: Rear view with new rec/reg fitted onto bike. Both power connectors pass between front carb cables and the SS3AW connector fits neatly under the electrics plate... (http://iloapp.empressmcc.org.uk/data/_gallery/public/11/139482744547956300_resized.jpg)
PIC: View from underneath. Lots of space there now and this will definitely be better for the breather hose routing as it was pretty cramped with the Sparkrite unit in there... (http://iloapp.empressmcc.org.uk/data/_gallery/public/11/139482747225922900_resized.jpg)
So that's it really... I'll be boxing off the engine this weekend and setting the timing, so that'll be an ideal time to check the output across the battery... IIRC, previous test showed 12.6V across the battery with the headlamp on... Fingers crossed, eh..?
Jeff
Got the beast fired up again today... ;D
Checking the ignition timing isn't the sort of thing I'd EVER want to do again..!! What a blooming mess!!
Anyway... My ignition strobe is a multi-function device that has a voltmeter mode... A quick check this afternoon showed the battery voltage reading 14.2V @ 3,000 rpm
I'll do some more tests to get readings with various loads applied and try and get some photos.
Looking good though.
Miti
I've had a chance to get the V1000 carbs balanced so it'll tick-over again after all the engine work she's had over winter...
That gave me a chance to get my proper meter connected up and get some readings...
The Yuasa battery fitted was on the bike when I bought it in 2011... I'm very happy with the way it's lasting. The bike has been sat for a week without a charger fitted (main fuse pulled to prevent the clock flattening the battery). PIC: Initial reading; straight acros the battery with fuse still pulled = 12.54 Volts (http://iloapp.empressmcc.org.uk/data/_gallery/public/11/139664991365443200_resized.jpg)
I took the opportunity to get some snaps of the panel lights to... Just to show how the SS3AW works...
PIC: Fuse refitted, ignition on, engine not running. (http://iloapp.empressmcc.org.uk/data/_gallery/public/11/139664996193542900_resized.jpg)
The charge light is a little dim compared to the others, but clearly visible...
PIC: engine running, oil and charge lights go straight out... (http://iloapp.empressmcc.org.uk/data/_gallery/public/11/139664998527944000_resized.jpg)
With the engine running, I was able to measure the "on-charge" voltage across the batteryPIC: Fast idle (engine not warm enough to idle at usual speed) = 13.03 Volts (http://iloapp.empressmcc.org.uk/data/_gallery/public/11/139665009147876000_resized.jpg).
Then I did another check @ 3,500 rpm... PIC: The voltage maxes out at 14.37 Volts (http://iloapp.empressmcc.org.uk/data/_gallery/public/11/139665003547348200_resized.jpg).
Both running tests were carried out with the lights on... There is less than 0.1 Volt variation between the lights on and off measurements, so the new rec/reg seems to be performing well.
I'll keep an eye on how things progress with this, but I'm well pleased with this upgrade... IIRC, the 'lights on' voltage with the Sparkrite unit fitted never exceeded 13 Volts... That's not really sufficient to charge a battery unless the bike is running for long periods with the lights off... Should be well sorted now...
Jeff
Hi Folks;
David Sharp has asked me to post up the following;
"I also produced a simple robust design for a replacement for the Lucas 3AW Warning Light Control (Part number 38706A) comprising one full-wave rectifier and a relay which comfortably fits into the original package (or a really neat little plastic box). Being solid state it is not so fragile as the original.
It looks like this:-
(http://iloapp.heskethownersclub.org.uk/data/_gallery/public/0/139790823085487100_resized.jpg)
David Sharp"
Folks, Two good news stories regarding Batteries and Rectifier/Regulator Units.
First the R&R:-
Being a prototype my bike was originally fitted with the 1970s type system which comprised just a three phase bridge rectifier and two Zener diodes in parallel. To prevent battery overcharge I always needed to run with lights (no great problem, of course) but battery management was non-optimal and when it packed up I decided a modern replacement would be appropriate.
After a bit of internet research and discovering a plethora of options I chose the A-Reg Three 3 phase regulator/rectifier (for up to 200W) designed and produced by NanoControls, Dereham and sold by A.O.Services, Thetford for £35.00. Al Osbourn was most helpful with checking out installed performance (voltages : currents : rpm) via email in the upgrade process. See http://aoservices.co.uk
And finally the battery:-
Dave K brought some Fullriver HGL20-12 'half size' 20Ah batteries into the UK 10 or more years ago and I opted to try one. . It was certainly man enough for the job and was much easier to fit being only l x w x h = 181mm x 77mm x 167mm. These were AGM sealed lead acid batteries. I think Dave K charged £50. The terminals are M5 screws so adaptors need to be made up. I recently decided to renew but the UK distributor wanted £150 so I turned to the European distributor in Belgium; Long story short: about £50 delivered. See http://fullrivereurope.com. Plus a small bonus: the battery has 10% more capacity than the original for the same form factor: the part number is now HGL22-12
DWS