Camchains

[Miti]

Hi Folks;

Over the winter, I'm planning on replacing the camchains on my V1000.  The OEM fitment is Renold (either 11037 or 11038?) and I'm going to try to find a modern, higher spec equivalent.

Before I start, has anyone researched this already..?  All info gratefully accepted.  Ta!

Jeff

[Rob B]

Hello Jeff,  I haven't looked at this but would be interested to see what feedback you get. The main problem I see is that your original chains will have worn a "Renold" chain groove in the tensioner blade and these are unobtainable, as far as I know. A different chain may have slightly thicker links, for example, and will not fit in the grooves.

[Miti]

Well... I've discovered that the original Renold chain may be type 110038 (AKA 06B-1).  That smashing Chap Colin has agreed to loan me a nice new OEM one from his personal stock of spares and I've spoken at length with Andy "The Chain Man", who will be sorting out a pair of top quality replacements from his extensive stock at the Stafford Show...

From what I've seen so far, the dimensions of the latest chains don't differ (significantly) from those of 30 years ago.  It's the materials used and the shape/construction of the individual parts that has changed...  That being the case, I'm hoping that any wear ridges on the tensioner/slipper blades may simply accommodate the new chains...  Mick B also commented about the "flexing" of the blades and I wondered if this was something worth looking into too..? Especially as originals are "NLA"...

Additionally... Andy suspects that the OEM item may be an "industrial" spec chain, rather than an "automotive" one.  He supplies timing/cam chains to automotive manufacturers and racing teams all over the world and certainly seems to know his stuff...  It's looking like any replacements may be of German origin (IWIS or JWIS being favourites) and my own research has shown that the spec sheets for these show measurably higher strength specs...

More, as work develops...

Miti

[Rob B]

Thanks. I look forward to hearing how you get on so please put my name down for a pair of new ones and in the meantime I will look at making some new tensioner blades unless someone has allready done this?

[Miti]

I collected the new camchain that Colin has loaned me from the post-office this morning (Thanks Colin).

A quick examination and a few basic measurements have shown that it's a Renolds chain (each link marked "Renolds UK") and that it's 3/8" pitch with 7/32" width.  It's a standard roller chain with straight-edged link plates and there are 90 links:



Of particular interest is that this chain has been manufactured by joining two shorter chains (two rivet links).  Additionally, the rivetted joins are VERY tight.  One won't move at all... This can't be good... AND, when I checked the sideways flexion (always a reasonably trust-worthy check of chain wear) there's already a good deal of flex and this chain is new...  My gut feeling is that it's not going to be hard to find a higher quality chain than this...



I'll pass these details on to Andy (the Chain Man) and see what he can do next Saturday...

More, after that...

Miti

[Miti]

Well, that's me back home...  It was very nice to see the folk on the HOC Stand and the Show was a great success for me...  I had a nice long chat with Andy at his stand in the main hall and came away with two nice new camchains:



They're manufactured by IWIS (branded as JWIS) and are purpose-built automotive cam/timing chains.  Apparently, they're pre-toleranced and pre-run so that the initial stretch often suffered during the first running periods of the engine occurs before they're even fitted in the engine...

They're IWIS chain type G67WZ-8 and each is 90 links long.  Andy buys pre-cut chains in bulk and then reduces them to required size (takes him about 15 seconds per chain..!) which is why the box is marked as 120 links...

When I showed Andy the original Renold chain, he had a few comments about it... Apparently, it's an "industrial" chain, which is pre-greased during manufacture.  The grease takes up the tolerances between link components and, when fitted, this results in the chain having to be re-tensioned very shortly after first fitting, as the grease moves away from the loaded surfaces and causes the chain to go slack.

He was also not impressed that the chain had two joins in it...

And less impressed that the joining links were so tight...  In fact, he was quite alarmed by this...

During the conversation, I mentioned my thoughts on sideways flex indicating chain wear:

when I checked the sideways flexion (always a reasonably trust-worthy check of chain wear) there's already a good deal of flex and this chain is new...

Turns out this is absolute rubbish. (sorry).  The sideways flex is a product of the combined tolerances within each joint in the chain and can ONLY be used to indicate wear if the flex of a used chain is compared with that of an unused one...  So I'll shut up about that..

So... Price..?  The two chains came in at a few pennies over £34.00  Andy says P&P (within mainland UK) would run about £4.50...

You can reach Andy on 01299 403688, or by e-mail at andy@the-chain-man.co.uk

I'll let you know how I go on with fitting them...

Miti

[Miti]

Well. I received my freshly polished timing casing back today and, yes, you guessed it... It's got pinhole casting defects...  Quite a few of them, to be honest...

I had hoped that getting this casing back was the trigger for me to pull the old casing off and get stuck into replacing these chains... Now I'm not so sure...

I'll get a couple of snaps of the new casing as soon as circumstances and light condtions coincide... I'll probably go ahead with the swap as the casing has got to come off to do the camchains... I'd also like to know if it's oil tight... Ho Hum...

Miti

[Miti]

Just a quick update... I managed to albeit snap my left radial biceps tendon just before Christmas and I've had to had surgery to reattach the bugger to the bone...  This has put paid o any "heavy" work over the past couple of months, but I'm on the mend now and up for a spot of tinkering...

The sad result of the timing casing polishing has caused me to re-prioritise my goals and I'm going to leave the camchains until next winter and focu on a couple of lesser updates to the bike... Fitting a Scottoiler and re-doing the crank-case breather to incorporate and oil separator... I've had the parts for both jobs for ages, so time to get the finger out...

I'll post up details as the jobs progress...

Jeff

[Will F]

Sorry to hear about the injury,how does the oil seperator device work? Best wishes Will

[Miti]

The oil separator is fitted into the crankcase breather... V1000's have a number of different breather systems fitted, depending on who built the engine and who's owned it since (it seems).  My bike is a production chassis with a pre-production engine and the breather is what I'd call "half-arsed".

On my bike the breather take off is at the bottom rear of the front "sock" (most are here, but some are in the centre of the V).  There is a sleeve fitted around the breather spigot to increase the diameter and then a short length of hose. leading to a simple separator, formed by welding two short sections of pipe inside each other and trapping some steel woll in the centre.  From here, the breather rises up to the front air box.

Some V1000s suffer from oil contamination to the front air filter and have had a separator fitted, with new hoses giving slightly different routing.

The pipe seperator on mine stops the oiling, but it'd location forces the hose aganst the rear header pipeand the lowest hose has become heat damaged and has split, causing an oil mist to leak and run down the casings...

I've sourced a seperator and (hopefully) suitable hoses and will be fitting these to "upgrade the system".  I'll take a few photos as I'm about it and post up where I got the parts...

Jeff